What is the BEST handgun round?!?
The debate over the 9mm and .45 ACP is one of the most heated conversations in the firearms community.
Enough to spawn sayings you’ll see all over forums (and t-shirts).
Both handguns have a huge following thanks to their popularity and success in the field.
But which one is better?
Well, let’s take a look at these two rounds and pit them against one another.
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Comparing 9mm vs .45 ACP
Let me start out by saying that the biggest mistake that most people make is taking a black-and-white stance on the .45 ACP and 9mm.
You’ll hear a lot of people say that the .45 is better because it shoots a bigger caliber bullet, or that the 9mm is better because of its capacity.
Click here to learn about more handgun calibers.
Both are valid points and very understandable reasons to prefer one over the other.
Even if you think size > capacity or more bullets is better, you have to admit having bigger bullets and having more bullets on tap are both worthy considerations when choosing one gun over the other.
The truth is…neither gun has a total advantage over the other one, and your personal preferences will play a lot in determining which handgun is for you.
Let’s take a look at the selling points of each one to help you decide.
About the 9mm
Praised for being compact and easier to handle than its .45 ACP counterpart, the 9mm has become one of the most popular rounds in the world.
For more than 30 years, the Beretta M9 and M9A1 have been the standard sidearm of the US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps.
Prices accurate at time of writing
Prices accurate at time of writing
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The U.S. Army eventually switched over to the Sig Sauer P320…but they’re still sticking to the 9mm caliber design.
Prices accurate at time of writing
Prices accurate at time of writing
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Even the FBI has phased out the .40 S&W in favor of the 9mm.
This begs the question: is bigger necessarily better?
The 9mm features some interesting advantages. It offers a larger magazine capacity given a similarly sized firearm.
And its compact nature makes it easier to carry, especially when concealed carrying.
Not to mention, the 9mm brings less recoil, making it an easier gun to handle – especially for beginners.
The 9mm also has a higher muzzle velocity than the .45 ACP because of its lighter bullets.
This has caused a debate in the firearms community over what’s better, a fast and light cartridge or a heavy and slow one.
While the answer to this is up to debate, one thing is certain: higher muzzle velocity does equal slower bullet drop.
Something to remember when shopping around for a 9mm…
One of the most attractive things about choosing a 9mm for home defense is having more rounds at your disposal.
Unfortunately, this benefit may be completely canceled out in some states due to magazine restrictions.
So, it’s a good idea to review any state and local laws before buying a 9mm if you’re set on having a 15+1 capacity gun.
Regarding the .45 ACP
From the days of the trusty Colt M1911 to modern .45 caliber handguns like the Glock G21 and the Sig Sauer P220, the .45 ACP has always been one of the most reliable calibers on the market.
After all, it was the official sidearm of the United States Armed Forces during two World Wars and remained so up until the 1980s.
Many handgun enthusiasts believe that bigger is, in fact, better and love everything that the .45 ACP has to offer.
Over 100 years of testing and iteration have produced some very powerful .45 ACP ammo.
While slightly impractical, the .45 ACP also has the coolness factor on its side. It’s a battle-tested gun that’s played an important role in American history during the 20th century.
Measuring the Two
There’s no doubt that the .45 ACP is a classic handgun that’s not going anywhere in the foreseeable future, but it doesn’t outperform the 9mm.
Oomph
Advancements in modern defensive ammo technology have helped the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. It’s not the same underpowered round that the FBI abandoned in the early 1980s.
With a good modern defensive ammo, the 9mm is just as powerful as any .45, just in different ways.
When comparing the two handguns, it’s important to note that the 9mm hasn’t become better than the .45 ACP…it just caught up to it.
A picture is worth a 1,000 words…new self-defense 9mm ammo opens up to create some nasty possible wound channels to stop attackers in their tracks.
That is some nice expansion from the 9mm ammo.
But let’s not forget the same developments in HP ammo that allowed 9mm to catch up to .45 ACP FMJ also allowed .45 ACP HP to beef up.
While the 147-grain Federal HST expanded from 9mm (roughly .35cal) to on average 15mm or .61-inches, the .45 ACP expanded from (again, roughly) 11.5mm to 25mm (.45-inches to 1-inches).
Both (roughly!) doubled in size…and since .45 ACP is bigger to start with, it became massive in the end.
Affordability
Furthermore, the 9mm is more practical for the average shooter looking to spend time on the range.
With boxes of 9mm Luger rounds being 30% to 40% cheaper than .45 ACP ammo, increased range time isn’t going to break your budget. And after all, spending more time on the range does make you a better marksman.
(Here are more tips on how to shoot more accurately.)
However, there’s always something to be said for having really big bullets ready to deal with really big problems.
Velocity & Penetration
Also, for you suppressor enthusiasts out there, the .45 ACP is an inherently subsonic bullet.
It fires slow and heavy bullets at a lower muzzle velocity than the 9mm and can be suppressed to near-whisper levels.
One of the main reasons why military personnel and many LEOs made the switch to 9mm handguns was because of the deeper bullet penetration.
Unlike in a home defense situation, the ability to shoot through a wall, automobile, or various other objects in a combat scenario can be the difference between life and death.
According to a report released in 2014 by the FBI, the 9mm was preferred in the field because of the following:
- LEOs have a 20% to 30% accuracy rate in shootouts, so magazine capacity is important.
- 9mm Luger rounds have a deeper penetration than other handgun calibers.
- FBI agents have been observed to shoot faster and more accurately with the 9mm.
- The wound tracks of a 9mm and a .45 ACP are almost the same.
- The 9mm’s lighter recoil makes it easier for follow-up shots.
Considering all of the advantages of the 9mm, why would anyone want to use the .45 ACP?
Well, when it comes to home defense, the .45 ACP does hold one distinct advantage over the 9mm…shallower penetration.
Don’t worry, that’s a good thing here.
As mentioned in the video, over-penetration isn’t as big of a problem with the .45 ACP because of its slower, bulky bullets.
This means you have less of a chance of hitting an innocent bystander through a wall in a self-defense scenario.
Choosing the Best Caliber for You
You might be wondering which caliber is better for you…the 9mm or the .45 ACP.
Well, this might rock your world but I recommend getting one of each — assuming you have the money.
Many shooters like to have the .45 ACP for home defense. It’s the perfect grab-and-go handgun to fire in close quarters where recoil won’t pose such a problem.
Alternatively, the 9mm’s stopping power and smaller design make it ideal for open and concealed carry.
While there are a number of compact .45 ACP models on the market, as a general rule, you can expect the 9mm to be more comfortable to carry in a holster.
Also, in a self-defense situation outside of your home, there’s a higher likelihood that you won’t be firing your gun at close range like in a home-defense scenario.
In this situation, you’ll be glad that you have the faster follow-up speed and a larger magazine capacity of 9mm.
Conclusion
Ultimately, both calibers are great to have. Some people prefer the heavier feel of a .45 ACP, while others find the light and slim nature of the 9mm easier to use.
Either way, the 9mm and the .45 ACP both pack a strong enough punch to neutralize any threat.
Where do you stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? Let me know in the comments below! No matter what caliber you pick, we got you covered in our Best 9mm Ammo and Best .45 ACP Ammo reviews.
And speaking of comments…we had some fun with this video…
435 Leave a Reply
For the longest time, I wouldn't think of going smaller than 45, with 10mm being the exception. 9mm was inferior in every way. Then started doing an in depth analysis of the two rounds. 9mm has a full length taper compared to the 45s cylinder walls. 9 feeds better and jams less. 9 is also available around the entire world. This with the above points is why I now own more 9mm than 45.
Be confident and accurate with whatever you carry and you will be good.
Be confident and accurate with whatever you carry and you will be good.
Someone get that poor girl a tan!
9-40-45 all will do the job. Your opinion is just as good as any other but you can't say the debate has been settled. I have confidence in all three calibers but usually prefer the 45. There are too many variables to claim one is better than the other. My opinion.
I shot the 45acp in combat with a Thompson. It knocks people down. They almost never get up. Unlike the M16, M4, etc., wounded enemy know they've been shot. I've put a few 100 rounds thru a 1911. IMO it's not a fun pistol to shoot. But if you need to fire in self defense, it's probably under 30' and maybe under 10'. You want a pistol that stops an assailant with the first round. If you want a pistol that's fun to shoot, get a 9mm or some other small caliber. But your self defense gun is a gun of last resort. Buy one that stops an attacker. Learn to shoot it and stay current.
From experience I know a 1911 will stop a bear.
My Dad was in the Pacific in WWII as a soldier and an MP. He kept his sidearm a nickel plated 1911 45acp and he always said "If you don't hit them the wind would knock them down!" My Dad had some great sayings! Never point a gun loaded or unloaded at something or someone you don't intend to shoot. Remember a lot of people are killed every year by supposedly unloaded firearms. Oh yeah I am a gun owner too. I will say one more thing No civilian needs a weapon that shoots more than 9 rounds! If you can't hit what you are shooting at in your first shot you should not carry a gun in public or you should spend more time on the range till you can because you are a danger to us ALL!
Hitting and stopping are not the same thing.
Cops have studied this and on average of 12 rounds are needed to stop a bad actor.
Not in the old days when cops had revolvers. Then cops would stop the bad guys with 2 or 3 rounds. Prior to the 90s the average gunfight had cops shooting about 3 rounds. Now the average gunfight has cops spraying 8 or more with less than a 25% hit rate. That means they hit the bad guys with 2 rounds on average. Some NYC gunfights had cops hitting 10% of the time.
Hitting with two is more effective than missing with ten.
Greg,
Worse than that. Check out these statistics "US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan – an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed – that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand."
Hello Michael, What happens when you are facing multiple attackers? Much like the saying about carrying a firearm "I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it". In extreme situations, I would rather have the extra rounds and not need them then to need them and not have them.
I’d rather have the suspect laying where he fell than chunking rocks at them hoping it might slow them down. After 50’ good luck with the 9 mm you can watch the slug approaching. With a .45 it’s a small hole going in and a hole the size of their butt coming out!
You're an idiot. 9mm travels faster than .45.
The .45 has higher kinetic energy and momentum.... Sounds like he's not the idiot
Anyone that believes that the 9mm is close to 45acp in stopping power is being untrueful and bias. Also, as of capacity…. Just have a couple more magazines with your 45acp. Furthermore, high capacity magazines shooters are more in the spray and prey mentality instead of being responsible for all your accurate shots fired. Most gun fights are over before you reach 10 rounds in a home defense situation anyway.
Over the years I have noticed that the mechanical action and trigger of the 1911 out performs the typical. Plastic striker fired handgun. Meaning most 9 mms. The police and military teach a Double Tap 2 shots of 9 vs one shot from a 45. So increased capacity is meaningless.
Greetings everyone, this can go on and on which is the best caliber, which has the best knock down power, which has the best penetration, etc. I have both the SIG P229 in 9mm and the HK 45C. I love them both but I shoot best with my 45. I practice more with the 45 only because I can’t carry my SIG in WA state with the 15 mag. Only at the range and use for the home front. Remember, placement shot will put down any attacker or intruder. Shoot what you are comfortable with and stop worrying about forums and what everyone is saying. They are all great guns and yes, they have brands and styles just like cars, pick one and get good at shooting it and you’ll be alright.
I’m an old fart 45ACP.
PSSSST. I have two 9mm too!!!
I’m an ex Special Forces soldier and in combat you need to hit your target and kill or do so much damage that you won’t get any return fire.Usually the aggressor would get behind something so you had to shoot through it to kill it.45 will stop a car a 9mm will watch it go by shooting at you.In self defense bigger is always better ‼️‼️
Thanks for the article. I've been rocking the 9mm for years now, but have recently purchased the G21. I noticed when shooting the .45 that my groupings were actually better- maybe due to the fact that I knew it was a bigger caliber so I was really focusing on my grip. I've become a huge fan of the .45 and might make it my EDC. But again, 9mm is a hell of a round.
The only two cartridges I shoot better than 9mm are .32 ACP and .22 LR. My deep carry/BUG is a Seecamp 32. I'm quite comfortable carrying a .38 Special +P J frame, backed up by the little Seecamp, or else I'll tote a Sig P365. Extended shootouts in self defense scenarios seem to be pretty rare. Most bad guys make peepee poopoo while running the other way once lead starts flying. If 5 in the J frame + 7 in the Seecamp aren't enough, I'll quote Confusious.
The 45 acp has been proven to have more knock down leathity. That is why most special forces are going back to it. This was proven by kinetic impact and cavitationall damage! This was proven against all types of body armor and both gulf wars and Afghanistan. There was a compilation of data where soldiers often dumped more than a magazine of 9mm into a enemy soldier but rarely more than one 45 acp bullet.
Who cares which one you choose. More importantly find the handgun that fits your hand the best without worrying about caliber. What ever you decide on practice and train until the handgun becomes an extension of your hand. Me personally a 10 mm leave’s either one in the dust.
Article literally says cops miss 75%-80% of the shots they take so it’s better they use 9mm bc there’s better penetration. IDK about U, but being that terrible of a shot, I really don’t even want them firing at all, let alone firing rounds with *BETTER* penetration! They can’t hit what they’re trying to hit, so why wld U want them to penetrate further into what they’re accidentally hitting‽‽ I wonder if cops around the globe are as pathetic as American cops? Ours are pathological liars, overly violent & abusive, obviously terrible shots, they know fuck-all about the constitution they’ve sworn to uphold, they murder innocent (& sometimes not so innocent) people with impunity, they don’t know the law & more often than not, they just make it up as they go along and oddly enough, their new laws always seem to align with whatever they want in whichever situation they find themselves in. They’re poorly trained, only solve ~2% of crimes, they spend most of their time harassing people who’re financially disadvantaged; what it comes down to is, they’re an incredibly well-funded & state-sanctioned criminal organization. I say “criminal organization” bc they literally do more damage & steal more goods than the actual criminals they’re meant to be stopping. And to think, I used to want to be one!!
There are several aspects of this comment that are interesting. Not sure of your profession but it's likely you've never had to engage in self defense or offense while being shot at. Accuracy in all shootings are abysmal during a shootout. Furthermore, you mentioned that the police do not "know "fuck-all" about the constitution"... How many of the military members (such as myself) do you believe have taken the time memorize all of it... Hell some of the guys I worked with, I wonder if they can even read, especially when some of them are joining the military just to become a US citizen and can barely speak English (this is pertaining to the US military).
That said, i see the concern with the 9mm and the extra penetration concerns with the missed rounds nearing 80%. The other aspects of targeting innocent, happens with every profession... Also, many that are disadvantaged financially maintain such of their own choice.
Take care.
Bootlicker
You forgot to mention capricious and arbitrary.
No, the article says that cops miss 80% of shots so they need MORE ROUNDS IN THE MAGAZINE. Better penetration is another issue. And remember: police shootings often involve people who are moving, using cover, and shooting back. It’s not, as you seem to think, like the range…
There are an estimated 60 million police interactions per year in the US with about 2% resulting in use of force. About .1% of that is use of deadly force and of that, about .01% is non-justified use of force, (i.e. the police were being attacked in almost every case) Would you consider that the media only really talks about the negative interactions and thats all you ever hear about? If you're open minded I'd check the Bureau of Justice statistics. “It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ― Mark Twain
American police aren't the best and have small bits of corruption like making up that they smell weed for an illegal search, occasional excessive force, etc. but if compare them to the rest of the world american police look like saints. All of south america police are directly involved in drug trafficking/kidnapping even running the convoys themselves and you can do illegal things like drunk driving and get out of trouble for $10-100 usd and get out of murders for a few thousand payoffs I lived there for a year so seen it first hand. Large parts of europe police are tied to the mob and in general way way way more useless then american police.
Isn't the 9X19 basically a "warm-to-hot .38 Special" in semi-auto form, somewhat in the same neighborhood as a .38 Super? It's obviously not a.357 Magnum. But, it makes sense as a military, police and security round. With the trainloads of money spent for cartridge development, it is what the government and private agencies want and can use, as well as civilians. The .45 has also been improved.
My first experience with the 9mm was in my early 20s. I was underwhelmed with the twin pops and barely noticeable recoil, the very thing that makes the 9 so likeable to many. I grew up with the .357 and .45, and admit I didn't have confidence in the 9mm. I suppose for me confidence was the deciding factor. If things go to hell, and I absolutely have to stop a lethal threat, that first magazine of .45s is reassuring. A few sources have said having a magazine with 15 to 18 (or more) rounds often results in the shooter blasting away. Nothing wrong with having high cap mags these days, what with gangs and disparity of force. But, if one believes a Gatling gun's worth of rounds on his belt equals survival, what makes one think he or she will survive long enough to make use of all that firepower? Extra rounds are comforting. I agree. Solid hits are the goal.
Other than rifles or shotguns, I still believe the .45 can hit hard, deep and quickly enough to do the job.
Look at the velocity numbers: you’re talking bs.
If you're the only one carrying a gun use a gazillion round 9mm because you'll likely be able to get a lot of rounds off before anyone can stop you. But, the reality is, in a gunfight, unless your opponent is really really careless, you will likely only get one or two shots off before you're rendered dead (if you're really really careless). Carry the biggest most impactful bullet in your gun and shoot as straight as you can as if your life depends on it. Or, just practice, practice, practice; excellent aim with your first shot will pay off much more than bullets being spewed all over the place.
Best advice here. We get so hung up over caliber its now merely clickbait in 2023. Ill echo you coz I agree. Biggest bore you can shoot well and comfortably carry in a gun you actually train with. Cheers
I agree with TZH. Training is the key to hitting the target. Training will also increase confidence and help manage the "amp" effect. I have both 9mm and .45 and they are similar in size (compact) and weight. I can take head shots with all rounds in a target range with all my guns. With a military background and my own hand loads, this is no problem. The best advice is to train as often as possible. I carry differently depending on where I am going and what I am wearing also but the 45 is just as easy to carry as the 9mm, just fewer rounds.
I also load the heaviest round in all calibers with no care about velocity because the handgun will never reach a high enough velocity to match even the slowest rifle round. The effect on the target is improved with weight of the round when it comes to pistols. Also the heavier the bullet, the slower the velocity in all calibers. If Kimber made a 357 sig, I would carry that one.
Everyone always mentions more capacity for the 9mm, but forgets to mention that you'll need those extra shots. And aggressive Prosecutors love to bring up how many times you shot them. If you feel the need for extra bullets buy the FNX tactical.
I found, for my wife, the 380A worked best for her. For me the recoil is like a BB gun but has a similar down range damage as a 9mm. The Ruger LC380 is her favorite. She is a small gal so it is perfect for her.
I am purest. I like the beef of an ACP. My favorite round is a sig 200 g. I tested this as a defense round and appreciated the impact force on soft targets. If you want to make a mess, the sig elite 230 g is a show stopper. The recoil may be heavy for some but since I am a big guy, recoil has never been an issue for me.
I carried the 45 in VN and I had to use it. One shot one kill at 30’. I love it. The energy at impact is greater than the 9mm.
9 mm gets females through the firing range. It is a problem at every agency. 9mm is the solution.
I may be considered old and not moving with the new trends, and all is good and dandy with the 9 mm and all the new ammo development, but if the .45 was good to stop the japs and the Krouts, in my book it is good to stop anyone who wants to harm me or my family.
I own both, a Colt Combat Commander .45 and a Glock compact 9mm. The Glock is my every day carry. When comparing the Glock compacts in both calibers, the 9MM was less bulky, lighter, and easier to conceal. If the gun isn't comfortable to carry, chances are you won't every day carry, defeating the purpose. Less recoil making for more accurate follow up shots is a huge advantage in a high stress defense situation.
My 9mm compact carry S&W Shield semi-auto has a ported barrel. It squirts so much flame out the sides it would scare an attacker half to death.
My military friends please chime in. ANYONE who says in a civilian encounter they can end it in 3 shots is either a psychopath, a liar, or never been in a SHTF scenario.
I know the adrenaline dump and freeze response. I (thankfully) also have an overactive amygdala response that kicks in to take over. If you THINK you can shoot accurately while adrenalized, then you're whistling past the graveyard. You WILL freeze and lose hearing and fine motor control. Veteran SWAT freeze. I freeze. You'll freeze. It's human nature.
The big question is how to navigate the freeze and put rounds on target. Unless you've been through Massad Ayoob's classes you'll be useless once you're adrenalized. Clumsy, deaf and with tunnel vision. You think that you can outshoot a cop? You think you can outshoot SWAT? BS!
What ends an engagement is being able to walk away from it. My preference is 9mm because I know how I'll respond. I know pros miss under stress. I'm not deluded in thinking I'll be able to point and shoot more accuately than them. I want more rounds with less recoil.
Hi Catherine. I had been on the fence regarding 9mm and .45ACP for a long time, then I purchased a couple of different 9mm semi-autos for carry over a few years, with .380 for backup. Mostly for the reasons that 9mm is easier to carry, has more rounds without reloading and is probably much lighter. I read a lot before I chose 9mm over .45 and was swayed a lot by the later technology of 9mm catching up with the power of .45. My sub-compacts with their polymer frames are smaller and easier and lighter to carry than a steel 1911. I found all-steel frames a tad heavy for pocket carry, even in compact size. I have several carry modes active: inside the waist band, outside the waist band, pocket (jeans, shorts and jacket), and .380 on the ankle. And yet after reading all the evidence about the benefits of 9mm and I'm already heavily invested in 9mm (and happy with it) I'm still looking at buying a 1911 because it seems everyone feels like they have to own at least one. I'm still on the fence about it though. Would I even ever use it? I like the reasoning that .45 might be less likely to over-penetrate walls at home, but does it really make that much difference between a 9mm and .45 at home? Where's the test evidence? For home defence, I have .38 special, 9mm and a 12 GA shotgun squirreled away. I don't own a .45 (except a Pietta .45 Long Colt cowboy gun I target shoot in the mountains- I love it), but my son does have a couple of 1911's which he loves and says they are fairly easy to conceal carry. He also has his .40, but he finally switched to 9mm for carry after squealing about the price of ammo (I chuckled!). He now carries a S&W M&P Shield like mine, or a Glock 19. I carry a Shield or a Glock 26. All are in 9mm, we both love our Glocks and Shields. My .380 S&W Bodyguard is so small, I'm considering getting a slightly larger .380 with a longer barrel for backup. This is to ensure good expansion of defensive hollow point ammo, plus the Bodyguard gets lost in my pocket and slips sideways on me. A different pocket holster might cure this, but so would a larger gun, with the benefit of longer barrel. I like the Bodyguard, unlike a lot of people. I've modified the trigger pull on mine a bit. This really is a science, but I benefited from reading a lot before I purchased, whereas my son didn't. He bought 'bigger is better' and eventually converted down to 9mm. I hope this is of interest, Colin
Sorry I mis-spelled your name Katherine. I also agree about freezing and adrenaline and tunnel vision and all that. I've never been in a gunfight, but I have been terrified out of my mind once, many years ago, when someone did come after me with a gun, and I couldn't get my knees to stop shaking. Obviously, he didn't get me. But, had I not experienced it, I never would have believed it would happen to me. People don't.
@Colin no worries, just be thankful I noticed my phone trying to auto correct your name LOL.
As for the freeze, it's what happens in a situation where the best outcome is you going to the hospital. It's a hardwired biological response. When it happens your mind will likely go blank. In my case it was no weapons displayed (but you must always assume present) against a $h!t brick linebacker. Thankfully my training kicked in. Whatever you repeat thousands of times will be available for use.
As for the rounds, force x mass = power. Hollowpoint should (mostly) negate over penetration. As for the tool, I like the Springfield XD series. If someone wants to open carry (which I personally discourage) the XDM appears rather intimidating and is quite accurate in calm hands. For CC, I like the XD-M elite 3.8 inch. It's compact yet carries 14+1 stock mag or 19+1 extended mag. Grip safety with chambered indicator. So you can literally grab, draw, aim and shoot. Then rinse and repeat as needed.
For resources, I recommend Rory Miller as he dedicated a chapter in his book to the freeze, Marc MacYoung how to avoid violence in general, and Tim Larkin. What if you can't deploy your firearm in time? Well then YOU become the weapon. Physics works whether you're a criminal or a descent citizen.
Thanks for the tips Katherine. We are now restricted to 10 or less rounds in the mag here in Washington State. Happily, I have some larger mags which were purchased prior to the 10+ ban, so are 'grandfathered' in! Have a great weekend, Colin.
You paint with a really broad brush, and worse yet you are wrong. Adrenaline is not the deterrent you make it out to be, some people actually perform better when "amped up" so maybe YOU would be would be useless but you have no right to comment on anyone but yourself.
A range instructor at Camp Pendleton once told me most would-be handgun shooters would be more effective hurling the pistol itself at the enemy rather than trying to aim and fire it. He was being serious.
If you can place three (3) rounds in the black, the debate of 9mm vs 45 acp does not really mater.
If you can place three (3) rounds in the black, the debate of 9mm vs 45 acp does not really mater.
Totally agree the new technology of the self defense bullets put’s the 9mm in the same class as the 45acp, but I still prefer the 45acp but I carry the 9. Great review
The same upgrades in 9mm ammo was done to 45 ammo it renders this argument useless
.45 is, by nature, subsonic. No need to buy specialized rounds. It's quiet and very handy if you plan on silencing a weapon. 9mm is just as quiet if you opt for subsonic which takes away the muzzle velocity and negates the price difference.
My non-silenced weapons are 9mm my silenced weapons are .45. I agree with the writer, owning both and applying to individual situations and preferences is right on the mark.
The hydrostatic shock of a .45 is inherently greater than a 9mm. Remember the reason for the .45. Before 1911, soldiers hit with a 9mm were still advancing even if mortally wounded. They had a narcotic in them to keep them advancing until they expired. The .45 stopped them in their tracks. Badda Bing, Badda Boom. I witnessed a man in the early 80s with over a dozen 9mm rounds in him. During the EVAC of Vietnam, one VC was dusted with a .45 to the shoulder and he was DRT...dead right there.
There really isn’t any hydrostatic shock to speak of at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with.
With handguns, it’s all about holes: how many, how big, how deep, and where hit.
Hi Wyatt, not trying to be a jerk here. It's possible the man in the 80's wasn't being hit by modern 9mm expanding hollow-point defensive ammo. I'm not an expert on injuries caused by ammo though. But if the FBI and cops have reverted to 9mm, I'm comfortable with it too.
I have both 9mm & 45. I have the M&P Shied, Glock 30. I also have rhe Rock Island 9mm/22 TCM & an AR 45 pistol. CZ Evo carbine & pistol, a Mac 1911 45 & many others. I like both & depending on where I'm going, how long I'll be gone, what I'm wearing & how I'm feeling makes my choice for me. I really enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points. 1 thing that cannot be argued is that the 22 cal is very effective. I grew up listening to stories & seeing the animals taken with the caliber. The 22 TCM is just a steroid version. President Reagan was hit with a 22 lr & we almost lost him. I guess a lot has to do with comfort of us & quality of placement. If your g it someone in the head, point blank, w/a blank round it should kill them. Go with comfort, shot group & confidence.
I have both and like them both. The 9mm is easier to conceal but when I am on my Harley I like to carry the 45. When I was taking a defensive hand gun course( took it multiple times ) at Front site all of my instructors had 45's. When I asked them why ....they said it was because they didn't make a 46. I was using a Glock 17 and really liked it. My 45 is a Sig dual tone full size 1911 and I like the weight and the 5 inch barrel. My 9mm is a FN509C with a red dot and I really like using it as my CCW.I use Federal HST in both for defensive carry. Interesting discussion thanks for the insight and thoughts.
The big difference in the 9mm and .45 which is often overlooked is if you have less than a 4” barrel on your 9mm even the the best (law enforcement grade) ammo under preformed; which negates the smaller 9mm’s
I like and own both and both have a mission. In church it's a full size 45 at home full size 45 SHTF one for travel one for house to house. CCW 9mm
See you miss a HUGE point. Capacity is not as huge a deal as you make it out to be, you tried to compare police shootings to civilian ones. They are extremely different. The average civilian self defense shooting ends on average between 2-4 rounds. The average is 3. To think you need 15+1 is just imo foolish. Hi capacity is unnecessary 5 and above is just fine. And sure it won’t hurt to have extra rounds it’s just not necessary, people try to bring up the “multiple attackers” argument and the same applies, 2-4 rounds to end an attack.
Also avg distance of civilian gunfights are extremely close quarters. Another fact if you shoot an assailant far enough away that bullet drop comes into play, you will have problems in court. Pew Pew needs to talk to professionals rather than giving amateur opinions.
Absolutely agreed.
I would prefer to ha ve more rounds just in case. You never know what you can walk into or what might bust in your door
Hi Chris. To add to this argument, I read a recommendation which said that in a civilian SHTF encounter, that five rounds would be enough to cover such an encounter based on research which had been carried out on previous encounters where the number of shots fired had been recorded, so purchasing a firearm with seven rounds would be considered more than enough (IN MOST CASES). So therefore if you had a smallish gun with 6+1, you'd be covered. If you had a slightly larger gun with a magazine holding seven or eight rounds (or more, such as a double-stack with 10, like a Glock 26) was available, you'd essentially have plenty (in most cases). That would be 1,2,3,4,5 to stop the threat and the rest to miss with. The common reasoning that having more than enough, or having the most you can carry because you can 'never have enough', well, it's not something anyone can make others believe one way or the other. Everyone has their own confidence level and may believe what people tell them or what they read. My own belief is that in most cases, people will over-carry for the sake of extra confidence. However, 'over-carry' isn't really the correct term, because one never knows what one will walk into, or how one will react to an encounter. Besides, small guns can be easily supplemented with an extra mag or two or a back-up gun. As Katherine pointed out as well, there are so many variables which can come into play like freezing, forgetting to take the safety off, tunnel vision, forgetting everything you've ever been taught, gun jam, on and on. In the end, I would rather have a 6+1 which I knew how to shoot well than a 15 rounder I couldn't.
I went with the 45 Smith&Weston MP2 Shield that is good foe me. I was one of those folks in the military in the 80's that had a 45 side-arm, so used to it. I also have a bull-pub style shotgun for home defense as well. Yes you are right there is a lot more 9mm ammo than there are 45 ACP. Their is also a cost difference thou if you look around you can get ammo cheaper.
I bought a 9mm because during this last ammo shortage my ammo was hard to find but I could get the 9mm no problem. A couple of days ago I went out to my hunting property to shoot something more than paper targets and compare the rounds. You say that a 9mm has more penetration than a 45. Then why is it when I shoot my 45 into a tree trunk I have to use a knife to dig the bullet out but when I shoot it with a 9mm the bullet just bounces off ?
One hit with a larger caliber is more debilitating than a smaller one. Also, the statement in this article regarding that 9mm's are more comfortable and lighter I feel is only meagerly correct. The comfort level of a a Colt Lightweight Commander is on par with anything out there, and that design is older than any of us still alive. I personally love the recoil and trajectory of the .45 ACP because my wrist is more adapted to it. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT & decision making!
Loved the part about the advancements in ammunition. ✌️
Well, accuracy can be paramount. I went to work on the Police Dept. back in 1971, couple years ago! We were issued S&W .38 cal wheel guns. No speed loaders, just six more rounds in the bullet loops on the holster. You had to buy your own oversized grips. So basically range time was paramount. When all you have is six rounds, you sure better be accurate, reloading took precious time. We switched to Sigs P226 which was wonderful, but accuracy dropped. Then the spray and pray method was adopted.
Spray and pray LOL. I think That's exactly why the 9 is so popular. It holds lots of bullets. I also like the .38 special. When my wife got her concealed I insisted on that weapon. I am ex military and I have seen way to many hiccups with autos and semi autos. With a revolver if you get a dud its no big deal. Just keep pulling the trigger. Since most self defense situations are at close range and I mean really close range there is no need for lots of bullets.
Hi Howard, I am NO EXPERT! But, to add to your argument, I read about an encounter a couple of years back where a large man broke into a house and tried to attack the lady of the house and her child. They took refuge in some kind of small room with a door on it. The attacker broke in through that door and the lady emptied her revolver into the guy before he was stopped. The lady and child suffered a terrible experience but survived. Takeaway? A couple of things: 1. Be armed and have the gun where you can access it (LOADED) quickly. 2. Plan. Have a place to barricade yourself in, in mind beforehand and think about what you would do yourself if it happened to you. 3. Some people are hard to stop. You can think of several reasons for this better than me probably. 4. Time matters. If they are still coming you have to be able to keep shooting. And sure, you have to keep hitting which is much easier if they are close. I like semi-autos, I like wheel guns too. I like that revolvers come in 9mm now (or more), and they sure seem more reliable and easy to use. Having two at hand, would beat reloading, like they did in the old days with two or three guns in the belt. I doubt that lady would have had time to reload. I also read several years ago about a young lad at home on his own, who had essentially been tasked with defending the home if anyone tried to break in. A group of people tried that, and he killed them all, I think he killed three men with a .22 rifle. I'm sure he had to have some counseling, but he did his job and survived.
I read most of the posts that preceded mine. Lots of experts claiming facts on stopping power, energy, penetration, etc. I bench load and like both cartridges, but I'll gladly carry any caliber firearm for defense as long as it is reliable, concealable and comfortable. All will work to some level of effectiveness if you can hit your target.
I shot IPSC and IDPA 30 years ago. Most shooters I knew had taken classes under Jeff Cooper and were total .45 ACP cranks. I used .45 ACP and full load .44 Mag in competition. I went along with more powerful is more effectiv and broke hammer struts on two N frames aka back to S&W factory.
Modern forensicss indicates a .38 Special and up is just as any other side arm aka marginal.
I was an ATL and TL with 173rd ABN BDE LRRP 1966-67. I fired four magazines on patrol engagements and was credited by MI at debriefs with seven confirmed. My original TL is credited with 30-40 at Son Tay. TL after me had 116 CQK, and TL after him had over 40 (and a posthumous MOH). If you practice and hit a vital section, the adversary is done.
Yep. I'd rather have a .22 short revo than just my index finger. My practice is Steel Challenge for about 14 years + USPSA and Zombie.
I knew folks who carried small .22LR automatics (Beretta etc) or light weight revolvers that family could Mail to RVN. wrapped in plastic and carried in chest pocket for the sauve qui peut event that could occur on a 5 Man patrol: weapon broken or having to swim River to E&E. It happened though there was usually a .45 GM carried by TL or RTO (almost SOP for RTO). As you noted, better an underpowered sidearm than a sharp finger.
I solved the argument of the 9mm vs the 45acp I have a 10mm and it's the best of both worlds
I am a Competition shooter I have shock sigsauer 9 mm Very unimpressed first of all Sigg Sire that I have the frame is bent
As for the difference between 9 mm and 45 does not even compare that’s why when you see police having to fire many shots to take down a criminal when 1 shot from a 45 will take him off his feet
Like I said I am a competition pistol shooter with mini trophies so I know what I am saying
I could not sell my 9 mm fast enough
As for a Defence caliper the 22 or is the most deadliest cartridge for a handgun at 375 yards I can put right between your eyes or I can put it between your ribs and put a hole in your heart
I agree Patrick. Then you have the kids that own that one 9mm pistol they spent $600 on and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread. A 45 will stop an attacker much quicker than a 9mm. -- For 9mm, some who prefer high capacity and easier recoil, I understand. Those are the only advantages. All this "muzzle energy" nonsense is for the clueless ones pretending to understand physics. They need to check the real world outcomes.
Real world outcomes of all special forces who only use 9mm? They experience real world outcomes every day.
Well the most elite special forces still use 45 acp, is it because it is better? Most likely they use it because they want to be special and have a pretty gun to stand out from the peons using standard issue pistols. Honestly, they don't really rely on pistols its mostly a last resort type of weapon. If you are special forces and you've resorted to using your pistol something has gone wrong. I consider 45acp and 9mm in the same class. They aren't like 22lr or up in power like 44mag. Same debates have raged on Betamax vs VHS, mustang vs camaro, HD-DVD vs Bluray, etc etc.
Muzzle energy is important, however, whoever said that 9mm has more muzzle energy that .45 ACP is pulling numbers of of their ass unless they are making an unfair comparison of +P 9mm to normal .45 ACP.
We also use Power Factor in competition which is bullet weight X velocity / 1000. 230gr X 800fps = 184000 or PF of 184. Certain matches require major or minor Power Factors. The reason is recoil and recovery. 9mm rarely reaches major (165PF) unless specially loaded and unsafe if you ask me. 40 S&W and 45 ACP usually make Major. So muzzle energy is certainly real and a consideration; however, if hit in the eye with a .22LR versus hit in the arm with a 45 ACP means anything, worry about aiming over power.
Could I ask you why every special forces in the world including the Seals and SAS use 9mm MP5s mostly. There has to be an overall advantage in close to medium range combat.
You can not spell and have no idea what punctuation is. And no a 45 will not knock you off your feet. Sit down, you sound dumb.
Penetration and energy, and the physical properties that result in them (velocity, weight, diameter, etc), are the most important features. Hind that is capacity, availability, recoil, etc.
45 loses in every category except possibly “suppression” and “shallow penetration,” if you want to call that a pro.
Time to grow up and recognize the difference between feelings (nostalgia, cool factor, historical value etc) and facts.
"Facts" for silly children, maybe.
The same advancements that the 9mm has received, so did the .45. I guarantee you I'll stop an attacker in fraction of the time you'll do it with a 9mm aiming center mass.
Ask yourself - if you had to be shot once and you got a choice of caliber, would you choose 9mm or 45? Enough with the clownery. We all know the answer.
I would want to be shot by the round with less penetration and less muzzle energy, 45ACP, because I have a greater chance of surviving - not that my odds are good either way.
You sound highly inexperienced. Preferring a 9mm for higher capacity and easier recoil is one thing. Saying you can stop an attacker faster with a 9mm than a 45 is absolute ignorance.
Correct, I have not shot many people. Nobody is saying 45ACP cannot kill a man. What I am saying is 9mm is a better round in all the metrics that matter. That’s why it’s more popular in police, military, and civilian use.
You are welcome to your opinions, but the facts are indisputable. Good day, Karl
Your "facts" are only indisputable for you, since you clearly lack experience or any real world outcomes. You cite physics you don't understand and claim that your opinion is fact. All the tellings of limited knowledge.
As I've said, I guarantee I'll stop an attacker quicker with my 45's than any of my 9mm. -- Ballistics have improved for 9mm simply to make it usable again.
Karl, you’ve clearly done no ballistics research and are relying entirely on anecdotes and your own experience. Your personal guarantee is meaningless.
Physics is easy, and understanding it is made easier by modern innovations like your tube . Watch some videos on 9mm vs 45ACP in ballistic gel. It is simulated human tissue that will show hydrostatic shock, penetration, and expansion . The results are clear, and they are not mine. I am citing the work of others .
45 ACP is better than nothing for sure , but 9mm is a superior cartridge.
Done talking with someone who refuses to educate themselves. Have a nice last couple decades on this planet.
JNB
The 45 has been used by the military FAR longer than 9mm and the 9's are used because they are cheaper, more available and have easier recoils. With modern ballistics the 9mm went from weak and unreliable to usable. -- Ask countless military and police and they will tell you 9mm is not always enough.
Physics boss: 9mm has more penetration and energy. This trumps expansion. Do your research
Once you're done watching YouTube videos, come back when you have more real world experience. And I don't mean keeping your one pistol in a sock drawer.
Feel free to cite your real world experience that you keep vaguely referring to.
Physics got us to the moon, I’m pretty sure it can calculate which bullet is more lethal.
Look, ultimately both rounds have very similar energy. Maybe 45 has a bigger physical wound channel (I’ll leave hydrostatic shock out of it, though the high speed footage of it in ballistics gel is compelling) and 9mm can go through a few extra boards — so it evens out. They are way more similar than they are different, and it’s up to everyone to make the choice what’s right for them. No way could I tell you what’s right for you.
What’s right for me is probably a double stack micro 380 (10+ rounds) and a 1.5 stack sub compact 40 S&W (10+ rounds), but they haven’t invented good enough ones yet so.. I carry a high capacity compact 9mm (P365XL with the magguts 14+1 mags) or a 357
Who knows , maybe we’ll all be carrying 5.7x28 in 20 years. Thanks for your opinion, it’s valid.
LCP Max may be a contender for that first category, but I might wait for the Glock answer (a 42x?), or a S&W in 30 Super Carry.
Not taking a side but this is akin to 45 vs 357. 9mm &357 same caliber but 357 alot more propellant. There are videos and statistics comparing 357 and 45 acp. They're comparable. The 45 makes bigger hole while 357 punches deeper. When I was young military carried 45acp most leo where I live carried 357. And used on drugged up people both were effective.
Yes! In the debate of 9mm vs 45ACP, I choose 357 magnum and 10mm. With the right 357, I can achieve upwards of 1800fps in a 16” barrel. You end up with the same energy as a .223/5.56 but with less risk of over penetration , which is great for a situation like home defense when you can’t always know what’s on the other side of the wall.
By the time you've pulled the trigger with a .45, a 9mm can put 3 rounds in any anatomically advantageous area.
100% agree. .45 is for nostalgia crazed red necks that can't let go of the past.
I expect our understanding of how bullets cause damage will evolve as well. Watching high speed camera footage of bullets entering ballistic gel really clues one in to the effect of hydrostatic shock versus the more traditional thinking that “the bigger the wound channel the bigger the damage.” In reality it may be “the bigger the amount of energy dumped into the target, and the more water displaced as a result, the bigger the damage.”
But I have a lot to learn in this area as well.
No body needs "A" gun, with so many needs there is no one gun that is practical, thus it should be said, no one needs "A" gun, you need many.
Come to the UK. Nobody needs a gun. Exactly...other than the special forces, army and specially trained police. I pray that America will get to that stage. Edit : You can get a firearms licence in this country but you have to be a farmer or pheasant shooter with an impeccable criminal history and with verified references and personality tests. What the USA needs is a firearms amnesty where everybody just gives their guns back to be melted. Unfortunately I sense America is way beyond that point. It must be a nightmare knowing you could be shot by a nutcase at any time, day or night. People call the UK weak and passive but in reality nobody NEEDS guns here. The only guns we fire are on computer games.
For sure we do not need guns for defense against other civilians. The purpose of gun ownership in our constitution is provide protection against tyranny. If we had no guns, we would still be part of the UK (and I for one think the world would be worse off for it).
I believe the opposite, actually: that all Americans should be required to own and be educated on guns . Perhaps they can be banned for possession while in public , I could stomach that. But really, the majority of gun deaths are either suicide or ignorance about how to properly operate the firearm , not malicious intent !
Regarding protection against tyranny, every empire in history has fallen (you know that as well as any). So, why should we expect that the USA is any different ?
Why guns when you have knives? Right?
You are so lucky Benjamin. I am a Brit who has lived in the US for fourty years now. I wrote a loooong rebuttal to your post, but I lost it so you don't have to read it now! haha. To summarize: I once was like you, but since having been here I have become educated (not brainwashed) and a happy gun owner, because: 1. This is America, not the UK. The people are different, the lifestyle is different, the people think different. 2. Americans don't care what Europeans think. They resent that Europeans don't know or understand America or Americans, yet Europeans seem to have this superior attitude anyway. Americans note that Europeans have small countries with a central government each, whereas the US is a country thousands of miles across with 367 million people, and a ton of different states. So it's infuriating to Americans that Europeans haven't a clue that the US has BOTH a central government and all these states, each of which has its own government and laws, which are often at odds with each other and the federal government's laws. Gun laws are different in different states. Some are strict, some are not. Europeans don't understand that the Democrats would introduce more gun control, and the Republicans fight against that; that there are both a pro-gun lobby and an anti-gun lobby. That federal gun control laws are hard to come by because of all of the above. Now, there are already bazillions of guns out there in the US, and Americans are never going to give them up, noway, nohow. Not ever. Different strokes for different folks. But I know you won't understand. It took me 30 years of my fourty being here to get it.
I have used both and much prefer the 9mm to a .45 ACP. As mentioned the simple fact is that the recoil of a 9mm is so much more manageable than a .45 which I call 'hand cannons'. So much quicker to re-aim, quicker to re-fire and hence more accurate. Sure you can fire a .45 as quick as a 9mm but it's gonna hurt your accuracy, doesn't matter how strong you are. I've personally had the experience of using a Thompson .45 submachine gun (A1 army variant) full automatic. Basically you aim at the feet because you end up over the head. This is where accuracy matters
I've shot that in Battlefield where all the ballistics are fully verified by experts because it's a computer game. Yes, that is the case, the .45 Thompson has ridiculous recoil.
I only currently own 9 mm handguns. But after doing extensive research I've come to the conclusion that the ultimate home defense gun other than a 12 gauge would be a 45 pistol like the CMMG Banshee with a suppressor.
26+1 rounds of 45 in a 5 pound package with little to no recoil?
I feel like this is the answer and I plan on purchasing one soon for myself and my wife.
Except it still has less muzzle energy, penetration, and capacity than 9mm in the same platform . May be a great home defense gun, but far from ultimate .
You'd first have to understand what muzzle energy is without using Google. 45 will knock you down and leave a massive wound, far larger than a 9mm. You can vaguely cite "muzzle energy" but it ultimately means nothing with so many variables.
Measurements are the opposite of vague . Knock down power is vague, because it doesn’t exist. The thing you are trying to quantify is energy , which 45ACP has less of by a notable margin.
You can claim you understand muzzle energy but you don't. A hollow point 45 will leave a massive hole in an attacker, much larger than your best 9mm.
All the advancement that improved the once weak 9mm have also been applied to the historically reliable and powerful 45. If you can't understand that, you'll learn once you gain more experience.
The way Guns damage the human body is by adding energy to lead. The more energy, the more potential for damage. 9mm on average has more energy l. It also has more penetration. Thus, it is deadlier.
Doesn’t get any simpler than that. Do your research. Watch ballistics videos. Retract head from tuchus. Bye, Karl
Again, you can cite all of your Google readings, real world outcomes are different. No matter how much you love than one 9mm you saved up for.
More penetration does not mean more deadly. That's more foolishness.
And you are citing nothing but your feelings !
Sentimental value does not are a round more lethal.
Bye, troll.
I'm citing experience, something you clearly lack. Once you're done with your YouTube videos, come back when you get some real world experience with that one 9mm you've taken to the range once.
No, you’re not . You’re alluding to it but youve cited nothing
Youve shot hundreds of people with both 45ACP and 9mm under exacting reproducible scientific conditions ? Because that’s how many studies there are.
Go ahead, cite your experience
Knock down power is about energy transfer. A heavy bullet going slow with the same energy as a light bullet going fast will transfer energy to the target better, but won't penetrate as well. This is why armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot tank rounds fly at speeds above 5000 fps. Knock down power is quantifiable by the Taylor Knock Down Index. You can find a calculator for it online yourself as this website doesn't allow you to post comments with URLs in them. A 230 grain .452" diameter projectile traveling at 835 fps has a Taylor KO of 12 while a 124 grain .355" diameter projectile traveling at 1150 fps has a Taylor KO of 7.
Can't argue with those numbers. I was working off averages that clearly didn't account for the extreme edge of the versatility of the 45 ACP cartridge. Impressive.
Well I redid the math, and 230 gr @ 835fps is slightly less, but essentially the equivalent in energy to 124gr @ 1150fps. So, I disagree with the Taylor KO index .
I did the math wrong in my first comment and thought the 230gr was significantly more total energy .
Agreed. I own a few 9mm's and three 45's. My highest capacity 45 is my home defense weapon.
I think the bigger recoil mitigating effect from the Banshee will be due to the mechanically delayed blowback. Not an expert on older 45 sub guns, but I assume they are all straight blowback. The Banshee (as well as MP5, and a few others) use a mechanical delay that siphons off a fair bit of that recoil energy .
I started my handgun experience as a .40 cal guy. I eventually switched to 9mm as I started shooting competitions and saw the .40 was a limiting factor. Now I am a range officer and shoot concealed carry and IDPA style matches regularly. The knock down power of the .45 is undeniable, but again, the speed and capacity along with the availability and price of the 9 makes all the difference to me. I have good friends who shoot .45 and we all get along just fine. Great article.
It shows you like 9m you talk about both but talking about 45 it was more about 9m but talking about 9m it was 9m but I enjoyed to know it so me both. or 38 & 45 both
What is best for competition use? Maybe target practice?
Inside the home I find .45 is the most comfortable. However on the range I like 9mm CZ P01 or Sig Sauer
I'm of the opinion that your article, as good as it is, is lacking in accurately assessing the capacity issue. Whilst a Glock 19 does have more capacity than a Glock 30, they are almost identical in size, with only 5 rounds difference in standard magazine capacities. So, if you consider 10 rounds of 45ACP sufficient, then, definitely, the choice would be the Glock 30.
A bonus is that you can use higher capacity magazines (9mmP & 45ACP) in both Glocks ;)
Possibly the only cons of the Glock 30, compare to the Glock 19, being slightly wider grip and more recoil.
PS. I own, shoot and train with few firearms and calibres, including the Glock's 19, 26 and 30S
Hello. The downside of a Glock is that it is a Glock. "Glock Perfection" is a MYTH.
Aww we got a glock hater. Glocks are the best semi auto, there's no debate about it. I bet if a poll was done on best semi auto handguns glock would win by a landslide
nah, H&K
H&K by far . Glocks are the most widely used, and are certainly good enough for almost all applications. But that does not make them the best
Hk, my friend
Fat & slow or snappy & whimpy... Not much of a choice. I'll keep my 357 SIG.
None of the bullets are slow, that's for sure. And I don't think I'd feel like any of them are particularly wimpy neither, unless it was a 22lr that went through with minimal damage.
Subsonic for a bullet is slow . Obviously we are talking relative speeds between bullets, not relative speeds between a car and a bullet.
"Subsonic for a bullet is slow"...Again, your limited knowledge is apparent here. What does "slow" mean? Fast enough to hit your target and put it down. You think someone is going to outrun your bullet? If I want range and penetration, I'll grab one of my rifles.
I very clearly state that slow is a relative reference to the speed of other bullets . Karl, you’re embarrassing yourself with this vendetta. Enjoy your retirement. Bye
Vendetta? Lol...Your comments are the only ones I've read here filled with ignorance and apparent inexperience. Don't come here like an expert when you clearly base all of your knowledge on YouTube videos you've watched.
"Subsonic is slow for a bullet" lol
That is literally the definition of subsonic : below a certain speed ( the speed of sound).
Yes I’ve used other people’s experiences to enhance my knowledge.
I have both I like the 45 but I love the 9 mm
9mm vs 45acp? easy. 40.
Agreed. My sidearm of choice has been the Gen 3 Glock 22 for years. It’s lighter than the 21, has greater capacity, and I can switch to .357 Sig in less than 30 seconds with nothing more than a barrel. I do have a CZ 75 and a couple of 9mm Glocks that I carry occasionally. My nightstand pistol is a Glock 41, but I would only grab it if one of my AK47’s stopped firing. Haha
Easier: 10mm
You always try to chose the right tool for the job, no surprise. My understanding is that most defensive shootings occur at 10 feet or less; probably because of the requirement to hold off until you are in fear of losing your life (home invasions not withstanding). That being said .45 with light for home defence and .380 hp for concealed carry. Not a Leo no need to shoot at distance or through material.
I have been shooting for around 50 years, and I like the .40 S&W for most things. I have a 10mm I use with handloads for pig hunting. The .45 is a good caliber, and I have one or two of them. 9mm can be a reasonable choice. With all calibers, try to match your bullet to your purpose. If FMJ is my only choice, then I won't pick 9mm as my first choice. I can still put a magazine full of .45 ACP right on target fast enough to get yelled at by the range officer. Practicing at a public range is not ideal. You must slow down.
When discussing the FBI and their conclusion that agents shoot better with the 9 mm, all I can say is look at their shooters. They couldn't even handle 40 S&Was. At one time the 10mm was in consideration for the FBI. HAH!
States where the max is ten bullets per magazine then 45 cal. will be my choice.
9 mm or 45 acp? Too easy - 40
How about THIS for a head fake?!
.45 vs 9mm?
Compromise.
.40 S&W.
ALL the benefits of both calibers.
More velocity, bigger size, more magazine capacity, great penetration, manageable recoil, compact frame.
Nuff said.
While I do agree with your statements about the improvements in ammo, I must disagree
with your statement 9mm has less recoil. Yes a 9mm may have less ft lb of energy going into your
hands, it does have a MUCH snappier felt recoil. A .45 is a solid push in you hand. For me personally
that is much easier to deal with. However i must say I have quite a bit of arthritic damage in both
wrist. With that said I can control the amount of muzzle rise on my .45's much better than a 9mm.
Yes I have owned many 9mm, when I was younger. Best thing to do before buying, in my opinion,
is go to a range and try both. How well you can control the weapon is a HUGE factor. Must
disagree with your conceal ability statement, sorry. I'm not a big guy, 170 lb, I can easily carry 2
government .45 and several spare mags concealed. You must dress around your guns. Myself
I'm sticking with ole tried and true 1911.
I don’t have much experience with 45’s but my nieces husband (recently retired LEO) said his “crew” tested both 45 &9’s extensively snd came to the conclusion that the 45 was quicker and more accurate on follow up shots due to the push back in the hand rather than the muzzle jump of the 9mm. On his last visit I shot his personal carry 45, and compared it with my Sig 320. The 45 exhibited less muzzle jump than my 9mm. He further explained that “smaller “ shooters found the 45 to be more accurate on follow up shots due to the reduced muzzle movement. Had I not already had an investment in 9mm equipment and ammo I would have considered the 45. Considering a switch.
Old, Fat and Slow will do the job on the other hand depending on clothing choices I've been know to carry a 9mm or a 380 and I'm comfortable with having the choice
10mm
Drop the mic
Walk away
Watch key board warriors loose their mind