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5 Best Holographic Sights for 2023

Looking at holographic sights? We bought the most popular ones and tested them for months to find our winner. Complete with real views and videos.

Seeing if a holographic weapons sight is for you?

Top Holographic Sights
Top Holographic Sights

We bought the two most popular holographic sights right now…plus a third underdog contender.

And we break them down into what we think is the best.

*Update*: Now we have three tested EOTechs too!

Three EOTechs, Back
Three EOTechs, Back

Keep reading to learn all about holographic vs red dots and the best models you can bank on.

Summary of Our Top Picks

  1. Editor's Pick

    EOTech EXPS 2-0

    600 hours batterlife, waterproof.

  2. Runner Up Holographic

    Vortex AMG UH-1 Gen II

    1,500 hour battery life, built like a tank.

  3. Most Affordable

    EOTech Model 512

    1,000 hour battery life, budget friendly.

  4. Runner Up Budget Pick

    EOTECH XPS2-0

    600 hour battery life, wallet friendly.

  5. Most Worth It

    Holosun 510c

    50,000 hour battery life, durable and reliable design. Technically a red dot but has the EOTech reticle.

  6. Best Bang for the Buck

    Holosun 507C X2 Pistol Red Dot Sight - ACSS Vulcan Reticle

    50,000 hours of battery life, unique reticle perfect for pistol shooting.

Table of Contents

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Holographic vs Red Dots

Without going too much into everything…why would you even want a holographic sight compared to a red dot?  We have this super in-depth article for that.

Red dots (or reflex sights) operate by having an LED project a dot towards a lens, which is specially coated so that it bounces back towards your eye.

Check out our Best Red Dots Under $200 article.

Best Budget Red Dots
Best Budget Red Dots

Holographic sights use a laser transmitted hologram of a reticle through a series of lenses back to your eye.

Holographic Sight Light Path
Holographic Sight Light Path

If it looks more complicated…it’s because it is.

Budget Red Dots All On
Red Dots All On

Since it uses a laser to transmit the reticle, it uses up more energy than a simple LED.

EOTech Reticle, 3x Zoom
EOTech Reticle, 3x Zoom

But because of that…

There’s a relatively unknown (but super important) distinction is that the reticle is projected outwards at the target instead of bounced back to your eye?

Who cares?

It makes for faster acquisition since your eye is not battling between focusing on a red dot at the optic distance vs the target.

With a holo you’re focusing on the target AND the reticle.

You also tend to get a bigger view window with holographic sights.

Tested Holographic Sights
Tested Holographic Sights

Oh…and even if your entire front lens gets destroyed…your holo will still keep on chuggin’.

There’s more reasons we go over in Red Dots vs Holographic. But for now, onto our favorites…

Best Holographic Sights

1. EOTech EXPS2-0

EOTech is the giant in the holographic sight game.

Sure, they had a little snafu a few years back about thermal drift (where the reticle doesn’t return to zero if subjected to extreme temperatures). But they are back and better than ever.

John Wick I'm Back
John Wick I’m Back

If you’re still worried about the thermal drift (all sights, red dot or holo, have them)…check out EOTech’s response for their new sights.

My favorite is their new EXPS2-0 which is shorter than the most popular previous model…the 512.

EOTech EXPS2-0
EOTech EXPS2-0

It has a big rectangular window that is very clear. And the famous 68 MOA circle with a 1 MOA dot in the center. Minute of Angle (MOA) means that at 100 yards, the big circle will cover 68 inches while the center dot will cover 1 inch.

EOTech Reticle, 3x Zoom
EOTech Reticle, 3x Zoom

All holographic sights will look a little fuzzy but that’s perfectly normal from the technology. When you have both your eyes open and are shooting at targets…it doesn’t affect anything.

The reticle is the perfect blend of quick acquisition and fine-tuned accuracy. Note that the above is 3x magnified using a Vortex 3x to show the reticle (Best 3x Magnifiers).

Here it is at the range. I had trouble getting clear shots of the reticle in high brightness. But it works great even on the sunniest of days in the desert.

EOTech EXPS2-0 At the Range
EOTech EXPS2-0 At the Range

And a better image of it inside.

EOTech EXPS2-0 Reticle
EOTech EXPS2-0 Reticle

The shorter EOTechs have a couple of variants…but I like the EXPS2-0 compared to the regular XPS line since it is 1/3 co-witness which doesn’t get in the way as much if you have irons or backup irons (Best AR-15 Backup Irons).

Co-Witness, Absolute vs Lower Third
Co-Witness, Absolute vs Lower Third

It also has a robust quick-detach (QD) rail system and the buttons on the side (essential if you’re going to run magnifiers).

EOTech EXPS2-0 Side
EOTech EXPS2-0 Side

The 2-0 designates that it is the 68 MOA circle with 1 MOA center. A must if you ask me. If you’re running night vision, opt for the EXPS3-0 which has some settings for NVGs.

Here’s a video of it in action with a little simulated head movement to show how it’s devoid of almost all parallax (moving your head will keep the reticle in the same location).

The reticle makes it super easy for close-up shots when I used the optic for pistol caliber carbine (PCC) competitions. While the 1 MOA dot was useful for farther plate racks.

I even took it on and off a couple of times while testing and it always stayed in zero (plate racks at 25 yards).

And how about some extreme abuse? We water submerged it, cycled it through cold/hot, dropped it, and then shot it with different loads.

EOTech EXPS 3 12ga Birdshot
EOTech EXPS 3 12ga Birdshot

And it survived like the best of them in our High End Optics Torture Test series.

My choice for best overall holographic weapons sight.

EOTech EXPS2-0, Adjustment
EOTech EXPS2-0, Adjustment

Stats

  • 11.3 Oz
  • 10 ft waterproof
  • CR123A Battery
  • 600 hours battery life
  • Not NVG Compatible
Best Holographic Sight
669
at OpticsPlanet

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

What do you think?

Readers' Ratings

4.98/5 (1204)

Your Rating?

2. Vortex AMG UH-1

The AMG UH-1 is a newish sight from Vortex and is the only real holographic contender to EOTech. It’s affectionately known as the “Huey” because of the UH-1 designation.

Vortex AMG UH-1
Vortex AMG UH-1

Built like a tank…it looks like it’s much bigger than the EXPS but it’s about the same length. The extra hood that protects everything makes it seem much larger.

Since it’s new, it doesn’t have the military track record of the EOTech but so far no major complaints besides a first initial batch that had some reticle flaring that is now fixed. Plus it’s a Vortex so it has a lifetime transferable warranty.

Vortex UH-1 Reticle, 3x Zoom
Vortex UH-1 Reticle, 3x Zoom

Speaking of reticles…the Huey’s reticle is my favorite out of the bunch. Still has the large circle for CQB (close quarters combat) but also has a nice triangle chevron at the bottom for shorter engagements.

I set my zero at 25 yards for the shorter PCC competitions…but if you zero at the standard 100 yards…the triangle will really help. Also has a great integrated QD mount that maintained zero between testing.

Vortex UH-1 Reticle
Vortex UH-1 Reticle

One thing I gotta knock it down for is…the greenish tint. It’s a lot more apparent than the EOTech which if it has one…is nearly imperceptible.

Vortex AMG UH-1 At the Range
Vortex AMG UH-1 At the Range

It didn’t matter too much during actual shooting…but looking at it by itself it bugs me a little.

Another downside is that the buttons are on the back so it might also interfere with magnifiers.

However, one cool thing is that it has a rechargeable battery inside that you can charge through USB.

Vortex UH-1, USB Charging
Vortex UH-1, USB Charging

I tried it out to see if it works…and it does. But realistically I’m not sure if I’m really going to be plugging in my upper to my computer when swapping batteries seems so much easier.

Speaking of batteries…the AMG UH-1 has a sweet 1,500 hour battery life compared to the EOTech’s 600 hours.

Overall, my runner-up if you want to get into the holographic sight game at a slightly lower entry fee.

Stats

  • 11.8 Oz
  • 10 ft waterproof
  • CR123A Battery
  • 1,500 hours battery life
  • Not NVG Compatible
Runner Up Holographic
599
at OpticsPlanet

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

3. EOTech Model 512

Back to the EOTechs…the Model 512 is their most popular since it’s their most affordable.

EOTech Model 512
EOTech Model 512

It’s longer since it uses AA batteries which are normally easier to find than CR123 in the newer EOTech models.

You’ll get up to 1,000 hours of battery life with a lithium AA and a matching 600 hours with regular alkaline AA.

Newer vs Classic EOTechs
Newer vs Classic EOTechs (L to R): XPS2-0, EXPS2-0, Model 512

It also uses a screw attachment instead of the quick-detach system of the EXPS2-0. That means it weighs less, costs less, and gives you absolute co-witness.

Retail is around $450 but occasionally you’ll find coupons at Palmetto State Armory that bring it into the $300s.

Stats

  • 11.5 Oz
  • 10 feet water resistance
  • AA Batteries: 1,000 hours on lithium, 600 on alkaline
Most Affordable
489
at Palmetto State Armory

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

4. EOTech XPS2-0

We’re back to the “newer” smaller EOTech design with the XPS2-0.

Three EOTechs, Buttons
Three EOTechs, Buttons (L to R): Model 512, XPS2-0, EXPS2-0

Like the Model 512, the XPS2-0 is screw based so you save a couple bucks vs the QD mounted EXPS2-0 version.

EOTech XPS2-0, Green
EOTech XPS2-0, Green

The buttons are also moved to the front which works easier for most applications but if you plan on adding a magnifier…it’s better to have the extra height and buttons to the side of the EXPS2-0.

XPS2 vs EXPS2
XPS2 vs EXPS2

My pick if you don’t plan on moving your optic a lot, not using a magnifier, and want to save a few bucks with the new EOTech model.

Stats

  • 9.0 Oz
  • 10 feet water resistance
  • CR123 Battery at 600 hours
Runner Up Budget Pick
579
at Palmetto State Armory

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

5. Holosun 510C

Holosun 510C
Holosun 510C

Ok…it’s technically NOT a holographic sight.

But instead the Holosun 510C brings together the best of both worlds by using energy-saving LED technology and the reticle found in holographic sights.

Longer battery life and a sweet reticle that isn’t “fuzzy” like normal holographic sights.

Holosun 510C Reticle, 3x Zoom
Holosun 510C Reticle, 3x Zoom

The center is a 2 MOA while the outside ring is 65 MOA. You can also cycle between using the dot only, ring only, or the combo.

Holosun 510C Reticle
Holosun 510C Reticle

However, it does have a greenish hue on par with the Vortex. Again, it was hard to get good pictures at the range.

Holosun 510C At the Range
Holosun 510C At the Range

If you’re solely looking for the circle and dot reticle (and not the slightly increased acquisition speed)…you can’t go wrong with this optic.

It’s crisp and nearly parallax free like its brethren.

AND with a 50,000 hour battery life since it runs off LED and not lasers. PLUS it has solar capability that switches in the sun so you aren’t running off batteries. FINALLY, it’s lighter and has a smaller profile.

Holosun 510C Side
Holosun 510C Side

Buttons are on the side for easy access and also it has a QD attachment system that also maintains zero. Has NVG capabilities but is less waterproof than the others.

My pick for the best worth-it “holographic-esque” sight.

Stats

  • 8.3 Oz
  • 1 meter (IP67)
  • CR2032 Battery
  • 50,000 hours battery life
  • NVG Compatible (10 day and 2 NVG)
Most Worth It
309
at OpticsPlanet

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

And now they have their “Elite” version which has a green reticle. I haven’t tried it extensively but it does help your eye see the reticle a little faster.

Or, along the same vein, grab the Holosun 507C X2 ACSS Vulcan.

It too offers 50,000 hours of battery life and a unique reticle that will help land those shots where you want them.

Best Bang for the Buck
319
at Primary Arms

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

Conclusion

Three Mounted Holographic Sights
Three Mounted Holographic Sights

If you’re looking for something more than a simple red dot…holographic sights are the way to go.

The big player and my favorite model is the EOTech EXPS2-0 which has the clearest glass, great button placement, and decent battery life.

Best Holographic Sight
669
at OpticsPlanet

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

If you want to go with EOTech but save a few bucks…go with the Model 512 which is a little longer and heavier.

Most Affordable
489
at Palmetto State Armory

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

My runner-up is the Vortex AMG UH-1 which is built tough, has my favorite reticle, has a longer battery life, but has a greenish hue.

Runner-Up
599
at OpticsPlanet

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

Lastly…if you’re interested in the holographic reticle, go with the Holosun 510C which sports an impressive 50K battery life.

Most Worth It
309
at OpticsPlanet

Prices accurate at time of writing

Prices accurate at time of writing

Available Coupons

Did we miss any holographic sights out there?  If you’re set on EOTechs and want to see even more models…check out our Best EOTech Models.

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42 Leave a Reply

  • Commenter Avatar
    John

    the Holosun 510C and the Vortex - that slight greenish tint you see is an anti-glare coating on the glass. An anti-glare coating is desirable if you are going to be in bright sun light.

    April 2, 2023 12:07 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    John

    "…it’s technically NOT a holographic sight.

    But instead the Holosun 510C"

    Ok, its not a holographic sight, period. There is no "technically not".

    However, if you aren't already infected by the hype about EOTech, and even if you are, for 99.9999999% of you the Holosun 510C is the better choice.

    April 1, 2023 5:49 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    John

    If you aren't already infected by the hype about EOTech, and even if you are, for 99.9999999% of you the Holosun 510C is the better choice.

    April 1, 2023 4:32 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    Ned

    I have several EOTechs. They were my go to until I tried the Holosun 510c. Now it's all I buy for this type of optic. It's really hard to beat for the price. It kind of makes me sick using my EOTechs knowing how much I paid for them. I suppose my EOTechs might hold up better if I were in battle....but I'm not in battle nor will I likely ever be. Nevertheless, the Holosun 510c is build like a tank too. I'm sure it would hold up just fine.

    May 25, 2022 8:09 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    Rick D Rivard

    Out of all the info given here, you still did not give me any idea which was the best.

    September 10, 2021 3:55 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    bambam32

    Hello. I'm a bit late to the party, but I bought the Holosun after reading this article. I do have a concern which sparks a question if you can help please. It seems to me that in a heavy rain the Holosun's emitter will wash out? Seems like the cavity where the light comes out would pool with water?

    October 12, 2020 4:23 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    jtrosse

    So if you use a Holosun hs510/512 with a 3x magnifier, will the reticle still be 6 moa at 100 yards just like any 2x red dot or does the holographic reticle allow it to still be 2 moa at 100 yards? Is it still better than a regular red dot to mate to a 3x magnifier? Thanks.

    July 14, 2020 2:20 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    ken

    Do the EOTechs still shut off randomly under recoil?

    March 25, 2020 6:39 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    Gidon

    The Huey is great with the m16. Unless you're blind you'll hit every shot quicker and with more accuracy.
    You can change the strength of the light make it perfect for both day/night use.

    March 1, 2020 9:08 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    Karen

    U so hung

    April 2, 2019 1:13 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    PewPewPeter

    After looking at EOTech vs Holosun, I got the Holosun. One thing I noticed that sold me right away was how clear the Holosun was compared to the EOTechs. The shake and wake tech is awesome. My primary use is for home defense and at the range and the Holosun is perfect for my lifestyle. I ended up buying one from an authorized dealer because several sellers on Amazon have had complaints about counterfeits. Also, their warranty is only valid if purchased through an authorized dealer.

    March 23, 2019 6:52 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    Mike

    Great article Eric. What 3x magnifier are you using for the Holosun 510c? Does it line up perfectly

    January 10, 2019 8:11 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    ORRIN

    WHAT ARE THE VIEWING WINDOW DIMENSIONS OF THESE THREE SIGHTS? HOW DO YOU RANK THEM IN TARGET ACQUISITION?

    September 4, 2018 4:08 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    Oliver

    Hi all,

    I always get confused with titles like "best red dot" etc. If I understand correctly these are only for riffles, not handguns. Would really help to clarify that.

    I am in the market for a red dot for hand gun and 90% of the reviews are for riffles. :-)

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Oliver

    May 16, 2018 1:46 pm
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      Hi Oliver, we're going to have a Best Pistol Red Dots article coming out in the next 2 weeks.

      May 17, 2018 12:48 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    Jjj

    How might the Holosun 512T compare?
    Does the tube interfere with sight picture?
    Just for looks?

    May 12, 2018 3:54 pm
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      I haven't tried that one out yet but it looks to be a reflex/red dot sight.

      May 13, 2018 1:31 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    Jjj

    Can someone explain WHY the Holosun 510C is not the #1 choice?
    The author wrote as if the Holosun has all the best features, except for the tint, yet rated it #3 ???

    May 12, 2018 3:00 pm
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      Hi JJ, it’s since the Holosun isn’t a true “holographic” sight so I can’t give it the win for the category. But if you like the reticle that’s used by EOTech and Vortex…the Holosun is awesome.

      May 13, 2018 1:30 am
      • Commenter Avatar
        Jjj

        I get the article is titled and categorized as "holographic", but as a user, I care more about the application than the technology, and what it does for me. To me, it looks like Holosun advanced the technology to combine both features of the holographic reticle with long battery life.

        BUT, I'm concerned about Holosun's open projection of the 510C, which would mean dirt/mud would block the projection. Does Eotech also have the laser exposed, and dirt/mud can block the projection?

        I'm thinking Holosun 512T tubular design enclosed the projection so dirt/mud won't be an issue.

        May 13, 2018 4:54 am
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eugene Ambrose Ray

      I was wondering the same thing, but realized the article is titled best holographic sight. But based on his review, and my personal experience with them all, I don't know why you would choose a holographic sight over one of the Holosun sights. They basically do everything the holographic sights do, but better. There are a few key features of the 510c not mentioned in this review

      -It has a shake awake and auto off feature, so you never have to worry about turning it on or off. It's turns off after inactivity, and will turn on before you can bring the sight to your face.
      -the reticle is variable, so you can switch between circle, circle dot, or just circle. I like each for different applications.
      -its much crisper than an Eotech and doesn't have that fuzzy appearance
      -Price!!!! It's doing everything better for half the price
      -It has a titanium hood over the lense to increase durability. I don't believe either of the other sights is made of titanium.

      The other sights don't offer those options. In my opinion, the HS510c is a clear winner over the other two. I know it's mentioned above, but I had to mention in again 50,000 and solar! As long as you have light, real or artificial, it will work. I use it without a battery on bright sunny days just because I can.

      May 24, 2018 2:52 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    J Striker

    I never see the Meprolight RDS in any of these roundup reviews. It's used by the IDF, so it's a worthy contender. I got one b/c I always felt the viewing field was too small on the Eotech. I've shot about 2k 30 cal rounds with it on+it never failed.

    May 10, 2018 4:21 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    Bill Jacobs

    Honestly this review makes no sense. Battery life? Holosun - Like 1500,2500 vs. 50,000. Price? Holosun - No questions. Innovation? Holosun - The holographic tech. is 22 years old and honestly is terrible clarity and is given to problems. An LED sight like Holosun or others that use an LED system and Holosun is not given to the same important issues ie massive thermal drift. Holosun also throws in a capacitor driven solar mode and 3 reticles? Just not sure how in the world you came to this conclusion.

    May 10, 2018 11:42 am
    • Commenter Avatar
      J Striker

      I love Vortex products, but don't see how it beat out the Holosun. The Vortex "tube" partially obstructs your view, has the button placement issue when used with a magnifier, and is more expensive. As far as durability goes, I watched a video of the Holosun being torture tested+it did great. I think they even shot it with buckshot+it still worked.

      May 10, 2018 4:37 pm
      • Commenter Avatar
        Bill Jacobs

        I agree man. Vortex magnified stuff is great. But that UH-1 vs. 510C is not even a competition. I also saw the video of the guy shooting it with a shotgun and then remounting it and ringing steel. I don't own an Elite Holosun yet, but I heard they upped their game to a lifetime warranty on that line. I know no one wants to admit it fully, but Holosun has wrecked a stale... either junky or overly expensive red dot market. New leaders IMO.

        May 10, 2018 6:40 pm
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      Hi Bill, it's since the Holosun isn't a true "holographic" sight so I can't give it the win for the category. But if you like the reticle that's used by EOTech and Vortex...the Holosun is awesome.

      May 13, 2018 1:29 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    Gga

    Question: do the holographic sights have the red dot flare problem of you have cataracts? Unfortunately, I sent back a d dot sight due to flare which turned to be my cataracts. My condition is mild per the doctor.

    May 6, 2018 3:34 am
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      I'm unsure about cataracts...but they still have the same problem as red dots with astigmatism. Best remedy is getting the correct prescription and/or choosing the smallest MOA dot.

      May 13, 2018 1:28 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    Newbie Here

    So what isn't to like about the Holosun? You seem to give it points on all aspects, but don't rate it with the others?

    May 3, 2018 4:19 pm
    • Commenter Avatar
      Bill Jacobs

      Asked myself the same thing. That 510C beats all the others hands down.

      May 10, 2018 6:42 pm
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      It's great but isn't a true "holographic" sight.

      May 13, 2018 1:27 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    Pat

    I have the Vortex, and I love it! But the shake and wake feature should be a given for any of these sights!

    May 1, 2018 6:19 pm
  • Commenter Avatar
    Aaron Johnson

    I find it funny that none of your selections were tritium powered. My reflex2 (purchased in 2002) now is dimming down if you aren't outside. I personally don't like the bloom on any of the eotech, but I really like their magnifying dodad.

    April 30, 2018 9:40 am
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      Hi Aaron, I tried to stick with holographic technology ones only but decided to put the Holosun in there since many people are looking for the reticle.

      April 30, 2018 11:05 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    John Tafoya

    I've been looking for a holographic sight that would go best with the leupold D-EVO, which do you think would be best?

    April 30, 2018 7:09 am
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      Hey John, I've actually never seen a D-EVO in the wild yet so I can't give you a good answer. But all the pictures I've been able to find have been paired with a Leupold red dot.

      April 30, 2018 11:37 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    John

    Still run my 2013 512. Eotech always been good to go. Even in our harsh western NY (Buffalo) winters and humid hor summers. Never turned it in never failed.

    April 30, 2018 6:33 am
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      Thanks John!

      April 30, 2018 11:38 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    Steve

    Hello. one thing i would like to mention with the holosun 510c is that it has two features that i really like. One is the shake awake or motion awake feature. You can pick up your weapon and it will turn on, meaning you can always have it turned on ready to go. . Also is has a solar panel which can conserve battery life. I wanted an EOtech but just couldnt spend that much on an optic at that time, i feel like the holosun is an amesome compromise at 200 bucks less.

    April 30, 2018 4:44 am
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      Great points Steve!

      April 30, 2018 11:05 am
  • Commenter Avatar
    Monte Walsh

    Gotta agree. EOTechs have served me well for years. Have used different Vortex systems for a couple years (their customer service and replacement services are second to none). Red dots are ok but I wouldn’t use them on working weapons.

    April 29, 2018 6:47 pm
    • Commenter Avatar
      Eric Hung

      Thanks Monte!

      April 29, 2018 6:54 pm
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our 9 favorite targets and drills

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practice targets

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